ChinaSMACK has a post up on Chinese netizens’ reaction to a Japanese magazine article. The article in question included an artist’s impression of the ATD-X/Shinshin/F-3 fighter downing a Chinese J-20 fighter. Netizen reactions ranged from nationalistic to bemused.
Of more interest however is the article the image was taken from, which depicts an indigenous Japanese aircraft carrier. It should be noted that as good as production values are, this is not an official design, nor has the Japanese government even hinted that it is interested in building a fixed-wing aircraft carrier. This is someone’s speculation, and it’s some pretty good speculation at that.
The pics are too low resolution to read many details, but we can read a few, and we can infer others. (If anyone can figure out more things, or has access to the original article, please feel free to post in comments.)
The design is an evolution of the Hyuga/Ise helicopter carriers, and the larger, follow-on 22DDH series. Note Hyuga on top and this new carrier on the bottom. The picture with the Green Shirt says that this ship would use steam catapults–apparently just two. Another picture says the ship would be powered by General Electric LM2500 gas turbine engines, the same used in USS Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and JS Atago-class Aegis destroyers. The engines are built under license in Japan by Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries. I can’t determine how many engines the carrier is supposed to have, but 3 LM2500s would give the ship roughly 90,000 shipboard horsepower. (Compare with USS Nimitz at 100,000 tons and 260,000 horsepower, and USS America at 45,000 tons and 70,000 horsepower.) Perhaps you’d want a fourth LM2500 to generate steam for the catapults.
Ship length is 285 meters, or 935 feet. This is just slightly longer than HMS Queen Elizabeth, but about 70 feet shorter than the PLAN’s ex-Varyag. I think we can safely put this in the same displacement category as Queen Elizabeth, or 65,000 tons.
Here we see where the Japanese graphic designers got inspiration for their flight deck.
The ship appears to be carrying 20 F-35Cs, the carrier variant of the Joint Strike Fighter. However, since the authors have helpfully provided a comparison image of the similarly-sized Queen Elizabeth, which is being designed with 40 aircraft in mind, we might infer that the Japanese ship is capable of also carrying 40 aircraft.
There is no sign of any Airborne Early Warning, Carrier Onboard Delivery, or Anti-Submarine Warfare aircraft, the lack of which would seriously hamper the carrier’s effectiveness. A lack of an AEW capability would even call into question the basic usefulness of putting fighter aircraft at sea.
The inset graphic seems to suggest the carrier battle group would be formed by Hyuga-class helicopter destroyers, Kongo-class destroyers and whole new classes of tumblehome hulled naval vessels. (Perhaps we can assume that helicopter destroyers could assume battle group ASW, and maybe even AEW.)
Basic point defense would be provided by Phalanx CIWS.
Oh, and the name of this new carrier? Hosho. If it sounds familiar, it’s because the original Hosho was the world’s first purpose-built aircraft carrier. It was one of the few Japanese carriers to survive the Second World War.
40 F-35 fighters and two catapults for what would be a staggering sum of money (even by Japanese procurement standards) hardly seems worthwhile. That points to the larger problem for Japan and aircraft carriers: would it be worth it? Although such a project would likely see American collaboration (and, thanks to the recent agreement, likely U.K. collaboration), the idea of Japan spending an enormous sum just to put a small number of aircraft to sea just seems improbable. It would be different if, like the U.S. and U.K., Japan had an interventionist foreign policy. It doesn’t. Japan has a defensive strategic outlook, and for such an outlook Japan itself is the aircraft carrier.
A more likely use for Japanese carriers would be to place airpower closer to the Senkaku Islands. At the extreme southwestern tip of Japan, the Senkakus can only be covered by air assets stationed on Okinawa and to an extent Kyushu. This also makes air cover over the islands predictable. Placing airpower aboard a moving airfield would turn that on its head. But would forty or even eighty be enough to make a difference in China’s front yard?
Once again, this is not an official design. But with Japan building progressively larger “helicopter destroyers” it is clearly moving in a direction where “fixed-wing destroyers” eventually become an option. A real Japanese aircraft carrier might again be possible 100 years after the construction of Japan’s first carrier.
The necessity of such a ship, however, depends on Japan’s politicians.
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A contributor and editor at the blog War Is Boring, Kyle Mizokami started Japan Security Watch in 2010 to further understand Japan's defenses and security policy.
Kyle Mizokami has 532 post(s) on Japan Security Watch






20 comments
arkhangelsk says:
May 3, 2012
Ah, I remember brushing across this magazine when I last visited Japan. IIRC surrounding this one are speculative plans for fighters … etc. Wasn't too interested in far off speculation because we are in times when you must wait for the chickens to hatch before you count them and speculative designs really have next to no chance, so did not buy the mag. Anyway, some random thoughts:
1) Given that they are using 4 LM2500s for their Hyugas and 22DDHs, I don't see how they will settle for less if they build this carrier. For a 60,000 ton ship, they'll probably stuff 8 into it for ~200,000HP.
2) Ironically, the ship itself won't be that expensive, comparatively speaking. Japan is actually relatively efficient at building ships. If it manages the same yen/ton (not too difficult since Japan has almost no inflation in yen terms and cost/ton favors big designs) as its 22DDH (~1100oku/ship,19500t standard), the ship will cost around 2500 oku yen to build, about half the price (in US dollars, today's exchange rate) of the 4 billion pound (b/f catapult) Queen Elizabeth.
In general, while once Japan is the most expensive arms manufacturer in the world, lately its disadvantage is reduced. No one seems to have good control over costs anymore…
Further, at the latest package sales price of US$238 million (and that's the A version; C should cost more), the bulk of the cost is the aircraft (20 fighters = >4 billion), which pushes the balance towards the mobility offered by a carrier.
3) Even America doesn't have fixed-wing carrier ASW with the retirement of its S-3s. For the AEW the Japanese happen to have a E-2C squadron already, so they can just plop down a det (presumably, they are "uncool" and thus in the hangar in the magazine pic). UHF radar has relatively good intrinsic detection properties vs stealth fighters so may offer a defense if the Chinese bring a J-20 (which is probable by 2025) to play.
4) It is true that Japan is evolving towards light carriers. The problem is opportunity. Budget for new military equipment never came easily in post-war Japan (even in the bubble period), and political resistance (or fear thereof) cause them to blow off every chance, to settle for less than they could.
a) 1980s DDV under the 8-8 fleet concept's air defence rubric … crushed by a mix of shortsighted JDA bureaucrat and American pressure (if they knew they will soon be buying nothing but Arleigh Burkes while cutting their ASW, they'd probably pressure Japan in a different direction).
b) Osumi, under the name of "Marine Operational Transport" has so little air capability people argue it'll have more if it wasn't through-deck so it can have a big hangar in its superstructure – now it is nothing more than a landing pad. They didn't even dare put the stabilizers in the first ship!
c) Hyuga, under the name of replacing the DDHs… they don't dare even put the heat-resistant tiles for V/TOL fighters (and V-22s) on.
With the 24DDH, they'll have used all their opportunities. In principle they have one more chance, in the name of replacing the Hatakaze DDGs sometime in 2020. However, given the current Japanese mania of BMD (to the detriment of conventional capabilities), they'll probably want an BMD-capable Aegis system in the replacement, which will drive costs up and reduce the chance of them being able to afford any carrier capability. The new DDG will be a better Atago.
And then they are out of chances. I can't see how they'll be able to justify this carrier in a way that will satisfy the bureaucrats who control but have no responsibility (bunkan tousei), not to mention the Finance Ministry who cuts everyone's budget but bears no responsibility for the reduced capability and don't even have the responsibility to ensure a balanced budget.
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James Simpson says:
May 4, 2012
I actually have the magazine (see right) and it's not very well put together, the information is dodgy in places, and it is basically 80% speculation. I liked it for their mention of SDF's use of the Natchan, but they completely missed the point of that usage.
Put simply, it's fluff for military otaku.
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James Simpson says:
May 4, 2012
As for the production values, they might look good in low-res, but they were nothing to write home about
Bad photoshop galore
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Chuck Hill says:
May 4, 2012
Next step is "defensive" "Escort Carriers," but it is going to take a long time. You can't put USS America class amphib in the same catagory. The escort carrier will need to be fast enough to keep up with the rest of the escort group. They are all 30+ knot.
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Mark says:
May 4, 2012
Three things I'd like to bring up:
1. Cost to build and operate an aircraft carrier. Considering the current trend in Japan's defense budget (though they did increase it up to 1.1% of the GDP this fiscal year), they're going to cut some of the spending in other areas.
2. JMSDF has no carrier-qualified pilots to operate on the deck of an aircraft carrier as we speak. If they are to introduce an aircraft carrier to the fleet in the near future, they should have started the training program for pilots and air crew several years before they even lay keel on the new ship. We have not heard any news if the JMSDF are sending pilots and crew to train with the US Navy.
3. Lack of manpower in the JMSDF.
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Tri-ring says:
May 4, 2012
It's more like JMSDF does not have any qualified jet fighter pilots full stop.
The fighter Jocks all belongs to the JASDF and none to my knowledge to the JMSDF so they need to recruit first before training.
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Mark says:
May 5, 2012
Neither the JASDF fighter jocks are carrier-qualified. It took the IJN several decades to perfect carrier operation and the training was among the toughest within the Navy. Sure, they can build an aircraft carrier in the next few years but who's gonna fly on them? And to think the Defense Ministry selected F-35A to replace the F-4, not the US Navy "B" or USMC "C" variants.
The number of the surface combatants (especially the Aegis DDG's) should not be compromised to compensate for the lack of budget to build and operate an aircraft carrier.
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arkhangelsk says:
May 5, 2012
They aren't, but at least they only have to learn how to fly on carriers which is somewhat easier than having to make the fighter pilots from nothing.
Do remember the objectives here are somewhat easier. Unlike the IJN, they can learn from the United States and don't have to be world-beaters immediately. No one expects them to be as efficient as a US carrier straight away. If only initial operating capability is expected, the set up can be within the timeframe of building the carrier.
The US Navy's CATOBAR version, for the record, is "C". It makes sense for the Ministry to choose the "A" b/c the F-35 has enough snags as it is. Nevertheless if they do decide to go carrier, that can change or they can buy Cs in the next batch.
For the last point, even if the MoF dribbles out a little additional budget for a carrier, I don't see them letting the MSDF have the carrier without trading some ships. For two properly outfitted carriers, the MSDF should arguably tolerate up to the loss of all its independent Goeitai. Fleet air cover makes a huge difference to the survivability of the fleet. Besides, it is an open secret that the manning levels of MSDF DEs are historically poor (as low as 50%) and they have old equipment (the Abukumas don't even have towed array sonar) so their combat effectiveness is dubious anyway.
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Mark says:
May 5, 2012
I got the B and C mixed up. That being said, since the MOD has already selected the A variant for the F-X program, even to eventually replace the F-15J sometimes in the near future.
I do agree that the DE's current role in the fleet is very limited and may be phased out by a more effective multirole ships. I think the MSDF should still maintain the number of surface combatants in the fleet while having enough budget to build an "aircraft carrier".
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arkhangelsk says:
May 4, 2012
3. To be fair, the carrier is a JMSDF dream. If the government lets them have it, all of a sudden they'll be able to find some old DEs and DDs from the "directly subordinate" Goeitai they are willing to cut to find crew and money for the carrier – as soon as that is, they can be convinced this is serious and not an ambush to give the Finance Ministry an excuse to cut several ships from their inventory w/o giving them the carrier.
2. For the pilots and even maintenance personnel, as Tri-Ring mentioned they have no fighter pilots and only a handful of jet pilots (flying slightly modified Learjets). Thus, it would seem best to draw the pilots and maintenance people from the JASDF. Even with the F-X, their fighter strength is going down and the carrier (or two) will be a welcome justification to keep a few more fighters and pilots.
Probably they can sell the US Navy on helping to train them and it'll reduce, though not eliminate the time.
1. It'll be a little more expensive than what they done so far, but with price control (something, ironically that Japan is turning from a lagger to a leader…), history suggests they can keep the build cost to something they can choke down if the will is there, and maintenance tends to be proportional with build.
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Tri-ring says:
May 4, 2012
Not going to happen.
Ever heard of rivalry between agencies?
Do you know why it occurs?
It's all about the money and if JASDF were to move their assets they have less legitimacy in maintaining their present organization which means less budget coming down towards their part.
Military arms always have this kind of bickering between each other and it becomes more fierce as budget becomes more stringent.
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arkhangelsk says:
May 4, 2012
I'll argue that if the government and MoD "broadbacks" start relenting enough that Hosho is a real possibility, the ASDF will for its self-interest 1) support the plan, 2) contribute pilots. A carrier is very much a win-win idea at least as far as the ASDF and MSDF are concerned.
The ASDF can try to insist the MSDF doesn't need a carrier, but it won't be much of a victory because the broadbacks have already buckled to MoF and agreed that they only need 260 fighters to guard the "Motherland" instead of 300+. It might be one thing if by opposing the carrier the money goes to them but realistically, they are not going to get a single additional fighter just b/c the MSDF doesn't get a carrier.
They are better off pitching the carrier together with the MSDF. That'll produce a new requirement for at least 20 additional fighters for every carrier built plus associated maintenance crew. Also, the ASDF doesn't have to shoulder the whole personnel burden of this new "base" – the MSDF will provide the Base Force.
Further, b/c they provide the AEW and fighters, relative to their actual contribution they'll have enormous speaking power in the combined force. While the Captain of the carrier will be MSDF, it is possible that the carrier air wing commander will become a joint position dominated by the ASDF. It might even be part of the quid pro quo the ASDF presses on the MSDF in exchange for supporting the carrier.
And of course, to maintain their position, they'll have to provide the pilots.
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uruzu says:
May 6, 2012
I like this step by step approach.
18DDH -> 22DDDH –> possible light carrier
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Robert says:
May 7, 2012
First there has to be a need for a carrier. I have said repeatedly that Japan has a need for one. I personally think they will have some sort of fixed wing aviation(I know the majority disagrees). It is not realistic for Japan to even say the U.S. carrier that occupies their port is something that Japan can rely on. Japan has a need for naval aviation for their own ends. They will have it at some point in some fashion and JMSDF will not imo utilize JASDF pilots or assets.Hide and watch they will find a way.
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Mark says:
May 7, 2012
JMSDF operates P-3 Orion and the new Kawasaki maritime surveillance/anti-submarine planes. So, they do have a naval aviation, but not the same air component as the US Navy nor the old IJN.
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Dennis says:
Jul 6, 2012
I like Japan but Japan as well as Australia need to pull their weight. The U.S has all these defense agreements since some before ww2. They are a global navy because of all these obligations of defense agreements. It would be nice if Japan and Australia as well have several Carriers. I think they can get it done but they like to leech off the U.S and are comfortable with not having to provide a defense for their country.
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